Tom did shatter my perceptions of "intense debates with Gay/Lesbian people" because with my past experiences, they all ended up with the person usually cursing at me. But Tom was different. Cool, calm and collected as well as intelligent. He presented a formidable challenge, but nevertheless, work had to be done.
To sum up all of Tom's posting, the following things were claimed:
- Because of his never-ending struggle with homosexuality, he came to the conclusion that since God didn't take away his desires, then it was God's will that he is gay and to accept it as such.
I had to learn that no matter how much I gave my life to God, and no matter how ridiculously good I strived to be in all aspects of my life, that He was unwilling to change my struggle, just as God doesn't take away Down's Syndrome. Instead, God shapes each of us uniquely, and it is our duty to honor Him by acknowledging those struggles and acting responsibly towards them. We can't (and shouldn't) change who we "are," but we can (and must) decide how we "act."
- Because of the sad state of heterosexual marriages and single-parent families, then homosexual marriages should be considered for the stability of the family.
With such high divorce rates and single parents raising kids, it could be argued that a stable, two-parent same-sex household with a stay-at-home parent is a lesser evil than a single working parent. At least someone is home with the children.
The problem is that, with heterosexual marriage being such a tattered institution, we as a society need to decide whether or not we want to not only define it as a union between a man and a woman, but also one specifically designed to promote a well-nurtured family. If we all agree that a stable household with a mom and dad is optimal for child rearing, then we would have to go much further in legislation than just limiting the genders of married couples
. . . .-- given that people will continue to be gay, some sort of legislation that encourages gays and lesbians to enter into monogamous lifelong relationships is surely better for society as a whole than to push people into the "closet" - Being gay is not a sin.
I believe, however, that the notion that being gay may be okay in the eyes of God goes beyond the argument that it is merely innate. I believe it has very much to do with the more fundamental question of whether being gay is in fact a sin, as stealing, adultery, or pedophilia are, or whether the positive experience of monogamous love between any two committed adults is necessarily a blessing from God.
Adultery, pedophilia, theft, murder, destruction, and lying, all physically or emotionally harm another person. Sexuality, when honored in the context of monogamous love, does not do this. - The Bible can't be trusted.
. . . even though some churches will theologically believe that it is scripturally irrefutable that homosexuality is by its very nature sinful, a number of centuries-old Christian faiths are still debating this issue. Regardless of what side of the debate one is on, the mere existence of such a debate shows how, even though the Bible reflects the word of God, once it is in the hands of mankind’s subjectivity, interpretation, linguistic translations, and revisions, it becomes intrinsically influenced and affected by man’s nature.
And so I believe that despite primarily scriptural arguments that same-sex attraction is sinful, all the goodness that I am blessed to experience in my same-sex relationship, coupled with God’s inspiration to treat that relationship with the same respect I would give a heterosexual relationship, in its totality cannot convince me that homosexuality is by its nature sinful.
We should never presume that the Bible, with is many edits, revisions, versions, and translations over the centuries, has not been in any way affected by our imperfect humanity. - Homosexuality is just as innate as having an incurable disease (also seen in #1).
If I were born with cerebral palsy, I would have to accept that I could do lesser things than a fully-functioning person, but I would never presume that I were not made in God's image, that I should pray for God to heal my condition, or that my life had less value than another. Similarly, I have had to learn to accept that God will not change my nature, that I will face limitations on the nature of any romantic relationship I enter into, and I may well face harsh judgment from those who don't understand the experience of being gay.
As of this writing, the only thing that seems to have quieted Tom was the questions about his church experience. By claiming to be Christian, then the next questions posed to him was about church. Another gay person (did not identify if male or female) did post on this discussion and mentioned that they were members of a church. A fellow Rock Church poster (Bradley) looked up the doctrinal position of this church and discovered that this person belonged to a church that teaches the infallibility of the word of God.
If one is gay, professes to know Christ and goes to church, then naturally we want to know what kind of church they attend. Tom was so sure of himself with no apparent conviction about his lifestyle, I couldn't help but to think that someone, or some group was making him feel quite comfortable. I came to these conclusions about Tom and others like him:
- He goes to a church with a with a gay perspective (Gay churches such as the Metropolitan Community Church system).
- He goes to a church that teaches the inerrancy of the bible but the church allows homosexuality.
- He goes to a church that teaches the inerrancy of the bible and homosexuality as a sin, but no one knows of his homosexual lifestyle, thus no discipline.
- He doesn't go to church but leaves his spirituality to himself and those close to him only.
We as a church should be ashamed. The issue of homosexuality is grown to where it is and could we be to blame? The church as a whole I see is getting away from the word of God with many pastors buckling under Political Correctness and admitting homosexuality within their churches (thank God, Pastor Miles is not one of those). And many churches that do teach the word are very lax in practicing church discipline. In the mega-churches (such as the Rock) it is impossible for the pastor to know who is doing what, so much of the discipline is delegated to the small groups, the heart and soul of the large churches. It is within these small groups that people can get to know one another for the encouragement, emotional and spiritual support combined with discipline that's needed. The smaller churches it becomes easier to get to know people thus making it more possible to establish discipline.
What can we do as soldiers for Christ? The sin of homosexuality is one of the few sins that is organized and being flaunted as a non-sin. We don't see adulterers, polygamists (maybe soon though), bigamists, pedophiles (with the exception of some of these boy/man groups) and any other sin you can think of, forming to announce their legitimacy.
If our writers of the Independence could have forseen the potential for the traditional marriage being undermined by the rise of homosexuality, perhaps there would have been laws created to protect marriage at that time. But it wasn't even a thought and thus the problems that we are experiencing today. Not only is homosexuality affecting the state of marriages, but has infiltrated our schools, and in some cases, one's freedom of speech is threatened if their stance against homosexuality is considered "hate speech."
Here in California, we must take a stand and in November and vote for the Gay marriage ban. As Christians we must hold that the bible is true and pray for a spirit of meekness to share the word to not only those who practice homosexuality, but any thing that is considered a transgression of God's law!
We are all ministers of the gospel of Christ and must heed the words of the apostle Paul as he spoke to Timothy:
"Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."
--- 2 Timothy 4:2-5
